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Lawrence City Council At Large Debate (Part 2)

Host Tom Duggan: The City Council just redistricted the City Council and School Committee seats in each of the City’s districts. Despite that fact the Federal Government says they are not happy because they say it is unfair to Hispanics. If you are elected would you be willing to fight the Federal Government to maintain local control of how we draw our city districts? Or would you be willing to appease them to allow them to do the redistricting for us.

Nunzio DiMarca: “Had the Federal Government moved in and proposed what they had been pushing for in the City of Lawrence fifteen years ago I would have been totally or it. However, the demographics have changed substantially in the city and I think it is a futile effort to resolve it as the results of the last elections have indicated. There are three Latin Americans, and I say Latin Americans because I resent the term Latino because I am a Latino and I am Italian. The difference is, I am a Latino European, folks that come from Latin America are Latin Americanos. To use that term Latino, that irks me. But I would fight for this absolutely because the council made a decision when it came to that and they opted to stay wit the form of government we have, with the 6 councilors from the districts and the three at large. The three Latin Americans on the council voted in favor of that because it was a fair decision and it was an objective decision.”

Marcos Devers: “There are strong arguments to reach a compromise in this case, in a way I agree with Nunzio in terms that, 50 years ago it was more justifiable than now. However, we still need to make some adjustment to be fair to our population. The demographics are changing and still, there are still games being played and we need to correct that at this point. We met with the Department of Justice and lawyers for the city and we expect some kind of compromise that has not been available to the public yet. It is going to be in court and we are going to have the opportunity of reaching a good agreement for the sake of everyone.”

Mike Sweeney: “I think we have been very compromising with the federal government and I think it is time to say enough is enough. I don’t know how much government involvement you want in your life. I think the Federal Government has gone far enough, I don’t think the problem in the city concerning elections concern the election lines anymore. I think it’s time for the Federal Government to but out of the City’s life and if it wants to help us they should be doing some voter registration, voter education and having forums that encourage the average person to run for office and seek office instead of gerrymandering these districts any further. I think it’s time for them to get out of town.”

Barbara Gonzales: “One of my arguments is that we didn’t ask for this we didn’t ask for them to get involved, we have not complained. We have over 10 Latino candidates running for office in this election. And until they resolve the issue I don’t think we will be able to vote. They have to come up with a resolution by the time we are ready to vote, so we can cast our vote. There are other communities they can focus their time and effort on and I think they should leave us alone.”

Host, Tom Duggan: “Just a quick “yes” or “no” answer. Do any of you think we should do away with At-large city councilors?”

Marcos Devers: “No”

Nunzio DiMarca: “No”

Barbara Gonzales: “No”

Mike Sweeney: “No”

Host, Tom Duggan: “ The City council approves a budget for the city. Would you be willing to refuse to approve a budget next year that includes residency violators being paid in violation of the city charter?”

Barbara Gonzales: “When they get hired they are told by the law that they have to move in. Why should we have to pay for them? Obviously if you are not a resident of the City of Lawrence two years after you get hired, then you should quit your job and go find an appointment somewhere else, because if one of your requirements for employment is to live in the city you should stick to it and follow the law.”

Mike Sweeney: “No, I would not use the budget as a tool to hold hostage the entire city. As I mentioned before, I personally do not believe in the residency law. It is on the books. If the next Mayor, Personnel Director and City Council chooses to go down that road and brings individuals before us for hardship hearings, I will sit at the council and listen and make a fair decision regarding that. But, I’m not going to hold up the entire city and the rebuilding efforts in the city for this issue that, in my opinion, has dragged on far too long without any resolution one way or the other. It’s time to focus on economic development, improving our schools and public safety, so no.”

Host, Tom Duggan “Don’t you think that this would then force the mayor to comply with the law, right then and there if the city council took a stand?”

Mike Sweeney: “I’m not interested in forcing the new mayor to do anything. I think if we reach a position as a city council where we are trying to force the mayor to do something five months after they have been elected by the public, we have already failed as a City Council. The key to this has to be communication with the next elected mayor, and that mayor also has to respect and communicate with the City Council. If that happens, I don’t think you will see the type of attitude where we put ourselves into a position where we have to hold the budget hostage in order to get communication with the mayor. If we are at that point, we have already failed as a City Council and we should all resign.”

Marcos Devers: “I think we should respect ourselves and respect our government, respect the constitution of the Untied States and respect the constitution of the City of Lawrence. That’s what we did with the management audit. The mayor didn’t want the management audit, she didn’t allocate the money for it and we took a hard stand of not approving the budget and went through a couple of months with a stagnant situation because of her refusal to approve the allocation of money for the management audit. If I have to do that again, for those who are not enforcing the law or those who are not obeying the law I’m going to do it. If you are a member of the City Council you have to respect the charter and abide by the charter. Otherwise you are just a puppet or a rubber stamp.”

Nunzio DiMarca: “You have to stand your ground and draw the line somewhere. There is the ideal and then there is the real. It would be nice if we could work it out and we could talk about it and lines of communication were open, however, we are in the days where it doesn’t happen that way. And sometimes you simply have to let them know before hand and say ‘look, as a council this is where we stand. We do not want to hold the city hostage and we want to make sure all the services are provided, however, we what you to know we are serious about this and unless you enforce it we are going to take some action.’ The council has the power to do that, but they have chosen not to. But, you can rest assured that if I am one of those elected I will push for that.”

Host Tom Duggan: “The School Committee does not get paid. Should the City Council approve a charter change to have some kind of stipend to pay these individuals who put their time and effort into run our multimillion dollar school budget?”

Barbara Gonzales: “I think if they are performing a job for the city and taking time away from their private life they should be compensated in some way or another.”

Mike Sweeney: “Yes, absolutely.”

Marcos Devers: “I am in favor of that because I have been pursued the issue of conflict of interest to make sure a member of the School Committee doesn’t work for the city. That would be healthy for them to have a stipend and we have to remind the people that the money that comes from the state from the 1993 Education Reform Act. The money is not coming from the city of Lawrence residents.”

Nunzio DiMarca: “If we look at the money that has been spent or misspent on advisors and consultants it more than makes up, not only to pay a salary, but for benefits for people on the School Committee. Again, I look at those perks, I hate to say it but that’s what it seems to me, with the favors there are many city services being done by consultants that can be provided by a much cheaper cost. The School Committee should be compensated.”

Host, Tom Duggan: There are some who advocate that the city should step in as a government body and tell private property owners how much they can or cannot charge for rents. How do you feel about rent control and would be willing to favor any form of rent control?”

Mike Sweeney: “First of all I think many of your viewers know that rent control is illegal in the state of Massachusetts, and I am 100% against rent control. It is a fundamental constitutional right in this country for property owners to control their property without government interference. Absent war or some other type of national emergency I am 100% against rent control. People are talking about rent control today because for ten years there wasn’t a sufficient conversation in this city about the housing needs for this community and the surrounding area. Lawrence isn’t the only city that has a housing crisis, virtually the entire east coast from Portsmouth to Baltimore is in a state of housing crisis. It’s a fundamental lack of leadership at every single level of government. And the answer is not right now to penalize homeowners who invested time and energy into their property. I am 100% against rent control I will not vote for it. It is illegal in the state of Massachusetts and I applaud the legislature for having made that decision some years ago.”

Host, Tom Duggan: “The state legislature did leave it up to the cities and towns to enact some form of rent control. They may not be calling it ‘rent control’ but to allow caps on the amount of money that can be charged for rents. Cambridge did try it and they phased it out. So are you saying that these discussion that are going on in the mayoral race are moot? You say it is illegal?”

Mike Sweeney: “I am saying that. I do think they are moot. First of all, any city or town can request a special provision under the law that bypasses the general laws of the state of Massachusetts on certain areas such as this. What they are really talking about is rent stabilization. I am also against rent stabilization. I don’t think the solution to the problems that are currently facing us in housing have anything to do with rent control or rent stabilization. What they have to do with, is a rising economy and the lack of fundamental planning over the last decade to create affordable and quality housing here in the city. We have plenty of vacant lots and vacant buildings that have not been put back into use. Any of your viewers can drive up Franklin Street or drive up Haverhill Street. There are over 70 units in that area alone that have sat vacant for at least the last four years. That’s 70 units that could be on the market today and that would take a big dent out of the problem we have right now. Those are the hard answers. Rent control is a knee jerk reaction to a very serious long term problem that we have to face today.”

Barbara Gonzales: “I have a problem with the lack of planning in the housing department by not generating more available housing, it should not be passed on to the owners. I do believe I am against it there is no reason why someone who has sacrificed time ad energy to own a property should be told what to do with it.”

Nunzio DiMarca: “I think because of the make up of the population of the City of Lawrence we are almost forced into a corner. A lot of folks cannot afford to pay the rent. It is a problem throughout the city. Perhaps the answer is to get some of these houses that have been closed up and fix them as best as possible and provide low income housing. Perhaps we can convert these mill buildings into housing units. We could sell them as condos or to first time home owners. But the issue has to be dealt with. Just a week or so ago you asked me the same question on the radio and my answer was more in favor of rent control, however, in listening today we have to be objective and open minded and I think that the best solution is to convert those mills to housing units and provide low income housing to the people depending on their income.”

Marcos Devers: “It is a complex issue, however, this is a capitalistic country and obviously we have freedom of business and commerce. Any homeowner and any landlord is just doing business and we have to be respectful. However, we have code enforcement that should be implemented and we have building codes, other health codes and building regulations that should be enforced and zoning districts for different uses. Based on that, we can stabilize the rents indirectly. But, city officials and elected officials shouldn’t be apathetic to the issue, they have to deal with this case and enforce the law and make the landlords be fair to their tenants and the tenants should understand that the land lords must comply with the law. Also, city officials should encourage the planning department and housing authority to look for alternatives to increase the housing by using vacant lots and abandond buildings and avoid the demolition of those buildings. We have a big problem because they just play by ear and are moved by prejudice.”

Host Tom Duggan: “Senior citizens happen to be a large voting block in the city, as most people know, when you run for office you have to go to senior housing units and then, unfortunately when the election is over the candidates fade away and the elected officials forget about them until the next election cycle comes around. I would like for each of you to tell me what you think, as members of the city council, that you can do proactively to reach out to the seniors and try to make their lives a little better after the election is over.”

Barbara Gonzales: “My mother is a senior citizen, she lives here. Some of her sisters as well. I visit her all the time and I would definitely visit them regularly and make their lives easier, keep their lives safer. They usually have a way of going early in the morning to avoid the crowds. They are afraid a little and they don’t understand. I would definitely make them feel safer in the city they live. They are the ones who need it and they want to stay here.”

Nunzio DiMarca: “We need to establish linkages between all of our senior citizens. I have noticed while visiting our senior centers there are some big differences between the people who live there. If possible we need to improve that so it will be a safer more healthy and more harmonious environment for all of them.”

Marcos Devers: “Our senior citizens deserve the best quality of life, they gave their all to this country. Some of them are veterans of past wars, worked hard in factories an mills in this city so they deserve the best of life in these, their golden days. One senior citizen asked me to pursue some kind of transportation during the weekends because they would like to go to some places. I would be glad to work on that. I would like to cooperate with the council on aging and find all the resources needed from the operating budget to help with any grants available. I would also like to restructure the council on aging board of directors which is not doing the right job. I am against this council on aging board of directors which is working in a way that is not fair to all the senior citizens. They are creating segregation, we have the information about it, it will be in the press very soon and I am taking action in that sense to change the structure of the council on aging. I want the best for all our senior citizens.”

Mike Sweeney: “Tom, we should tap our senior citizens to serve on some of these city boards I’ve been talking about. Let’s get them more involved in city government. I think we should provide transportation directly from their homes right to City Council and School Committee meetings and to lower board meetings. I think we should also provide a shuttle bus service, work with local businesses to have special days where one strip of businesses on Essex Street or Jackson Street or Lawrence street will all give senior discounts on a particular day and the city will provide transportation to and from those homes to those businesses.. Let’s draw the elderly back into the community and provide them the access they need to do that. As Councilor Devers said, they have served us, they want to continue to serve, it is our responsibility to find the avenues for that to happen. I am also a strong advocate for your position, Tom, of getting air conditioning into those nursing homes. Let’s get that done.”

Host, Tom Duggan: “We have a minute or so left for closing remarks.”

Marcos Devers: “Once again thank you Tommy, and thank you to the viewers for paying attention. There are still a lot of things that have to be accomplished, one of my promises from the last campaign is the GIS, The Geographic Information System, I am working very hard on that. I am pursuing those promise so that all the city will be automated and all the city departments will be linked, and all the city departments will have some accountability.”

Nunzio DiMarca: “I would appreciate one of your votes. I am ready willing and able to serve you. I promise you to do my very best to improve the quality of life for all of our Lawrence citizens.”

Barbara Gonzales: “I can only say that I will be your servant, your leader and a communicator as a City Councilor At-large.”

Mike Sweeney: “I would greatly appreciate one of your three votes. I would like to continue to serve the city and I respectfully thank you again for paying attention tonight and please continue to engage in the city. I also promise to work hard for you and listen to your concerns.